What has been your aviation path so far to taking up the position of Director of the Institute of Aviation?
I am a graduate of the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering and Aeronautics at the Warsaw University of Technology. My specialty there was thermal power engineering, so at first I did not specialize in aviation, but I got to know the environment dealing with this field. My professional adventure
with aviation - which I have been passionate about since I was a child - actually started in 2002, when
I started working at the Institute of Aviation. These were difficult times on the labour market and initially in 2001 I found a job in the construction sector, but whenever there was an opportunity
to work in my own specialty - even for a lower salary - I immediately decided to take this step.
As a heat and flow exchange specialist, I was hired to work on the combustion chambers of a jet engine.
The processes taking place during combustion in the power industry and those in a jet engine do not differ in terms of chemistry or physics. This was at least recognised by those who talked to me at the time. Those were the late director Grzegorz Szymanowski and experts from the United States, exactly from General Electric.
Was it a step in the right direction? How do you assess this today?
It was a great opportunity for all of us, I am talking here about graduates of the Warsaw University of Technology and Polish technical universities in general. In 2001 the situation on the labour market was dramatic. Even as a graduate of a good university I was unsuccessfully looking for a job in
my profession. We were lucky to have a foreign partner - General Electric, a big western company.
On the other hand, there were people in Poland - then director of the Institute Mr. Witold Wiśniowski, Mr. Wojciech Potkański, who realized that the reconstruction of potential in such
|a demanding field as aviation can only take place with the help of such serious players. For me,
it was fantastic that after a half-year break, half of my vintage met at a training course in the United States. We were sent for training in Evendale, Ohio, where GE's main aircraft engine factory is located. We acquired knowledge of engine design principles there and that was no longer theoretical knowledge. Poland of 2002 was then separated from the world by a technical divide. We had almost no access to digital devices. I presented my engineering work on films. In a very limited scope
we used computer-aided design tools. In "clickology" we lost to people from China or India – drama!.
The following anecdote is related to the fact that I made my first project within the framework of
the work for the Engineering Design Center, the substantive department at the Institute of Aviation, while making calculations in a notebook. It took me 30-40 pages and a week. I came to
the presentation of the results, to the place of the inspection at the Evendale factory.
When I presented the solution to the problem and showed the paper notes, the silence fell and
the lead engineer started to review them. At the end he said: "Good work, but remember that
we live in the 21st century. Next time, use a computer. For the next six years he never asked me if
I understood what was hidden in the software or where the results came from. He knew I had
a theoretical preparation.
What exactly did the cooperation with GE give the Institute of Aviation?
The Institute had to rise after the cancellation of the Iryda programme. When I came here for
an interview, I saw an uninteresting picture, characteristic of most of the Polish institutes of the time - crooked sidewalks, damaged roads, neglected offices. In the office building where our colleagues are now working on avionics solutions or energy conversion, there was a wholesale of electric kettles and pots. We came to work and there was no place to park a car, because there were already mini buses standing and waiting for TIR lorries with goods. But there was a group of people in
the Institute who tried to survive and these people tried to work on technical development.
They carried out various types of work. Some of them later moved to the Engineering Design Center, the others could not speak English or did not want to come to terms with the local style of work - the fact that someone says what we have to do, that we work to complete the task and not until 3 p.m.
I remember today when the directors Mr. Szymanowski and Mr. Podkański returned from the United States and invited us for lunch. They said: "Now it will be good". So discussions were held somewhere, although we didn't know anything about that in 2001-2002. It turned out that
the American party is satisfied and wants to develop cooperation. At the beginning, there were
a handful of us - 30-40 people including people from the old Institute of Aviation. And that's how
it started. First, we dealt with jet engines, after five years more businesses came. The Americans saw that it was possible to carry out good engineering projects here, and next came to us orders related to aviation structures. Then, came GE Energy - power generation and conversion systems and GE Oil and Gas. We expanded the employment to 200-300 people, and over the next four years to 1,000 people.
In March this year you took over the management of the Institute of Aviation. What does this institution represent today? What are the main areas of its activity?
The Institute of Aviation years ago and today are two different institutions. This is due to the people who worked here and managed this institution. Today, we implement international programmes as participants but also as leaders. We are in international research associations and we have many interesting scientific publications. I dare to say that we are among Europe's top 10 aviation institutes. Cooperation with GE also looks different. Over the last two decades we have learned and gained experience. The Americans have allowed a generation gap to emerge. Many of their engineers have retired and others are often very young and are just gathering experience. We filled this gap with our people, which is why many Poles are important people in GE today. We deal with hardware, we are responsible for the development of engine lines and their service. We contact customers and airlines. The engineers of the Institute of Aviation are not only involved in aviation, the scope of our work, mainly in cooperation with GE, also includes energy sources, fuel industry, advanced solutions in
the field of energy, renewable energy, extraction and transport of raw materials such as oil and gas, energy processing and accumulation and industrial engines. Of course, we have developed all this around our aviation competence. Poles are a creative nation and if there is a niche, we "put our feet there" and build our position. Even people who are leaving us are now going to the Polish labour market - with a high work culture, design approach and the ability to solve specific problems.
People who have been assessed as professionals at a good level in our company play a leading role
in many companies. This means that we have excellent staff, also on a European scale.
One of the most recent topics at the Institute of Aviation today is the multi-purpose aircraft ILX-34. What is the origin of this idea and what do you expect from its implementation? Is it just
a question of educating people or do you want to get a marketable product?
We want to ”kill a few birds with one stone”. Let me be bold: there is not a single construction office in Poland today that is able to design an airplane, not counting gliders and ultralight machines.
On the other hand, there are factories in Poland that produce planes, such as those in Mielec, but no new construction is being built there for the time being. No passenger aircraft is being built
in Poland. Even small. The last serious airplane was designed here about 40 years ago and it was I-22 Iryda. People who did it today are 60-70 years old. This is the last opportunity to draw on their experience.
Another argument for making this plane is the fact that the Institute of Aviation, or at least the 400 people who work outside the alliance with GE, operates in a large fragmentation. Until recently,
they were involved in about 100 projects. Good articles, works etc were done, but there was no specific project that would benefit the national economy and taxpayer. In my opinion, it was important to show people a common goal to be achieved.
The third element of the jigsaw puzzle is the fact that we have gained experience over the last 10-15 years and competence in the design methods and implementation of large international projects. The latter provide opportunities for the joint design of aircraft, its commercialisation and significant market success. Talks are already underway with Turkey, Romania and the Czech Republic on
the subject of cooperation,
Last but not least, an analysis of the global market clearly shows the growth in demand for this type of construction, which will continue for many years to come. It will simply be a good business.
What about missile programmes? What does your business look like here?
It consists of two sections. The first one is remote sensing - image acquisition and analysis.
The second one is space propulsion - it concerns rocket engines for solid, liquid and hybrid fuels as well as engines for satellites - among others plasma engines with forces from a few tenths to a few Newtons. Thanks to the organizational support of Mr. Leszek Loroch and Mr. Witold Wiśniowski,
the Amber rocket was successfully tested in October. It was possible thanks to the great support of professor Piotr Wolański, who, among other things, helped to build an appropriate group of young engineers, said what and how to design and research, but above all, showed the goal and motivated these young people. Currently, talks are in progress on the practical use of this rocket.
One of your projects in recent times has been the ILX-27 helicopter. What is happening with
this project?
The ILX-27 project ended with the creation of a technology demonstrator who passed a series of tests. For the time being it is finished. Employees of the Institute of Aviation, Technical Institute of Air Force and Military Aircraft Factories No. 1 plc. have gained experience thanks to it, which I hope
we will use in future projects.
And what do you expect from the ILX-32 project, which was recently tested in Nevada?
First of all, the acquisition of competences. In addition, this type of construction has a chance to be used, e.g. in the Polish Armed Forces or the Border Guard as a patrol machine and helpful in
the rapid transmission of information. We are aware that this is not the only structure of this type in the world, but it is one of few Polish constructions. There are similar solutions from other countries on the market, but does Poland have to buy everything? Products are better, but only on condition that when we buy equipment we acquire technologies. Intellectual property management in Poland is at a low level. We know that today we will buy Patriot rockets and a school plane, but the question is whether in the future we will have to buy the next generation of these weapons as well. Or maybe we will make them ourselves? I am not of the opinion that everything should be done from scratch in Poland, but when buying a contract that gives us the right to develop and learn on the basis of acquired technologies.
What does the financing of the Institute of Aviation look like today?
We are, to a large extent, financed by the Polish State Treasury, hence my concern that the taxpayer should have something more than scientific articles and trained staff. A large part of the funds also comes from cooperation with foreign partners. It is worth mentioning that last year we conducted research for about 100 industrial entities.
In which areas?
Aviation and material research concerning broadly understood mechanics. We have laboratories and we try to use them. For example, we have one of the most modern laboratories for testing bearings.
And how do you deal with the staff? Today it seems to people that the best career is done abroad....
We have people with rich experience, who do not want to go abroad and agree to earn a little less. We also have young, ambitious people who are very idealistic. We want to bring salaries closer to market values. At the Institute of Aviation it was possible to earn good money, but you had to be able to move within the motivational system. Those who worked on EU projects and knew where
to publish were earning money. Now we are working on a new remuneration regulations. I want
to make it possible to say before the end of the year that we have a good income for those who work
to achieve the objectives of the Institute of Aviation. And that it earns money on the market.
And what are the goals of the Institute?
For me, the mission that we have recently defined together with the Board based on tradition and an analysis of resources and opportunities is important. It is about making a significant contribution to the development of aviation, cosmonautics and the Polish economy while providing the highest quality research. Because this is a mission and everything that is part of it deserves to be financed from taxpayers' money. The strategic objectives of the Institute of Aviation are to maintain a leading position in the field of aviation, cosmonautics and related fields (e.g. mechanics) and to improve
our competitiveness on the global research market. We need to show people our goals. We have all the possibilities to create an airplane, a rocket the army needs and components to offer UAVs on missions for the Police, Border Guard and Fire Brigade. We want to develop products with a chance of implementation and not to fill the cabinet with documentation for prototypes. For that alone, Poles need to have an alternative in the future in the form of interesting work and not to have
to work only in fast food chains.
Your employees go on internships at universities and factories in the United States. Do American students also come to you?
They come to us every six months for an internship with the top five students from the Ohio State University and five from UNB - Universidade de Brasilia. They are always satisfied with the internship and... delighted with Poland. Thanks to this, we establish relations with people who in the future
will play a managerial role in American and global companies and research institutes. These relations will be very important in the future.
Thank you for the interview.
